How to Raise an Obedient Child Without Raising a People Pleaser

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Hello, friends. Today's podcast question says:

"How can I teach my children healthy obedience without it growing into fear of man or fear of consequences instead of reverence for God? My oldest, five, seems to veer on the people-pleasing side but is more obedient than our youngest, who is two and very stubborn and needs lots of discipline."

I love the heart behind this question. I love the heart that wants to train their children to obey out of a love for God and not out of a fear of man or a desire to avoid punishment. So to whoever wrote this question in, thank you so much.

This is an excellent question for us to think through: how do we teach our children to obey because they love God, not because they fear man or they fear consequences?

That's the conversation we're going to dive down deep into today on the Foundation Worldview Podcast, where we seek to answer your questions so that you can equip the children that God has placed in your care to carefully evaluate every idea they encounter and understand the truth of the Christian worldview. I'm your host, Elizabeth Urbanowicz, and I'm thrilled that you've joined me for another episode today.

So what we're going to talk about is this: what do we need to make sure we have in place in our discipline so that we aren't just training our children to fear man and be people pleasers, or to simply fear consequences?

Don't Lower the Bar

The first thing I want to address is that there's a lie in our culture we need to be sure to avoid. We need to make sure we are not buying into the lie that behavioral expectations should be lowered simply because we cannot change our kids' hearts.

There's a narrative running around in the Christian world that sounds like this: "Well, we want our children to obey because they love God, and we can't change their hearts, so we need to not have consistent consequences, because we don't want our kids to fear man or just fear consequences."

The solution to that problem is not to take away the consequences and lower our expectations.

When we sinned and broke God's law, and it suddenly became impossible for us to live up to God's perfect moral law, God didn't lower the bar. He sent Jesus. God still has the same bar He's always had, but He made a way for us to reach that bar through the righteousness of Christ.

Now, it is true. We cannot change our children's hearts. Only God can take a heart of stone and turn it into a heart of flesh. However, God has called us to disciple our children, to train them in the way they should go.

And in the younger years — especially between the ages of about one and a half and seven, in those developmental stages — most of the behavior patterns our children are going to have for the rest of their lives are set during that time. That's not to negate the work of the Holy Spirit later on in life. If we are believers, the Holy Spirit is sanctifying us for the rest of our lives. So I'm not saying the Holy Spirit can't move after our kids are seven. But I am saying the patterns we're establishing between 18 months and seven years of age are really setting our kids on the trajectory they are going to be on for the rest of their lives. So we need to be faithful in using these early years to train them well.

Get to the Heart

Now, to get more to the questioner's question — the second step is that in discipline, we need to make sure it is heart-focused.

Do we need to change the behavior? Yes. We need to help our children change their behavior. However, if we're not getting to the heart of the matter, we're not going to be successful at actually changing the behavior.

In his series Getting to the Heart of Parenting, Paul David Tripp uses an example of someone having a crab apple tree in their backyard. As humans, we can't eat crab apples — they would cause us to get sick. So if we want to get rid of crab apples in our yard, we could go and pull off those crab apples every time they grow, and we could staple Macintosh apples on there. But what's going to happen? Well, those Macintosh apples are eventually going to rot and fall off, and the crab apple tree is going to continue to grow crab apples, which we're going to have to pull off again.

So what is the solution to getting rid of crab apples in our backyard? It's to dig up the crab apple tree by the root, get rid of it, and plant another type of apple tree in its place.

It's similar with getting to the heart of our kids' sinful behavior. If we're just changing their behavior without getting to their heart, it's not going to be a lasting change. It's just going to be like stapling Macintosh apples to a crab apple tree.

Those of you who are faithful Foundation Worldview Podcast listeners have heard me recommend many times before Ginger Hubbard's Wise Words for Moms chart. I highly recommend you get a copy if you don't already have one, because in that chart she goes through 32 different sinful behaviors our children might be ensnared in. For each behavior, she gives several heart-probing questions — questions we can ask our children about why they did something, what their goal was, whether that was honoring to the Lord. Then she goes through several verses that offer a reproof, that help a child take off that sinful pattern and repent of it. And then she gives verses and words for encouragement — what our children are supposed to put on instead of the thing they have taken off.

So if you don't already have a copy of the Wise Words for Moms chart, I highly recommend you check it out. Also, if you're listening to this podcast right now and you are a Christian educator, Ginger just updated the chart to include educators as well, because her goal is to help unite the Christian school classroom and the home so that discipleship is happening similarly on both fronts. So if you're a Christian educator, I highly recommend you check out that chart as well.

Tailor Discipline to Each Child

Okay. So the first step we talked about was: don't buy into the lie that because we can't change our children's hearts, we lower behavioral expectations. That is not what we do.

Number two, we need to make sure that in our discipline we are focused on the heart. So we're not just saying, "You did that, therefore you get a time-out." We're actually talking through with them why they did what they did, what was wrong, getting to the heart of it, and then helping them put on the right thing.

The third thing — and this is really getting to the questioner's question about how to train our kids not to be people pleasers or kids who just want to avoid consequences — is that we need to tailor our discipline to the individual child.

This questioner mentioned that her firstborn seems to go more toward the people-pleasing side, while the second born seems to be more stubborn and needs lots more firm discipline. That is very common — if you know anything about birth order. It's not true in every single case, but in many families the first child is very obedient and struggles more with people pleasing, while the second child tends to be a little more strong-willed and struggles with obeying.

So what we want to do is make sure our discipline is tailored to who our children are.

For the People-Pleasing Child

If you have a child who struggles with the sin of people pleasing, the sin of people pleasing actually needs to be directly addressed.

Affirm to your child over and over and over again that God loves them no matter what they do, and that you love them no matter what they do. As your child is upset — and a lot of times children who struggle with the sin of people pleasing become very upset when they've sinned, not because they've broken God's heart but because you are displeased with them — this is where we need to say, "Mama loves you, not because of what you do, but simply because of who you are. I love you, and I always will love you."

Depending on the age of your child — whether they're three or seven or twelve — the comfort you give them is going to look different at different ages, but remind them. Affirm them of your love for them and that it's not based on what they do or don't do.

And then we need to make sure that in our discipline we're not feeding into their people pleasing. With a child who's a people pleaser, if we say, "Ugh, I am so disappointed in you," that is really just playing into their sin of people pleasing. Will they repent then or demonstrate a repentant heart? Yes, they will — because they're crushed that they disappointed us.

However, our words when we're talking with them should not be, "I'm so disappointed with you." Instead, it should be, "What you did was a sin against God." So we're affirming God's love for our child, our love for our child, and pointing out that their sin was wrong not because it disappointed us, but because it broke God's law. It was first and foremost a sin against God.

Think about David in Psalm 51. In that Psalm, he is repenting of his sin with Bathsheba — that he basically took Bathsheba and forced himself upon her, got her pregnant, and then murdered her husband. And in that Psalm, David says:

"Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight." (Psalm 51:4)

We might think, "Wait a minute, what are you talking about? You sinned against Bathsheba, you sinned against her husband." Is it true that David sinned against them? Yes, absolutely. However, his sin was primarily against God, the righteous judge of the universe.

So with children who struggle more with the sin of people pleasing, we want to make sure we're not saying, "Oh, you disappointed me." Instead: "What you did — it was a sin against God. It broke God's law."

When we're disciplining them, we want to remind them again of God's love for them — that God forgives them not because of who they are, not because they're crying right now, but because of Jesus. That God sent Jesus to pay the price for their sin and to reconcile them to God.

I highly recommend that with a child who struggles more with the sin of people pleasing, at the end of your time of discipline with them, you pray with them. Thank God for His great love for your child and that He will never stop loving your child — no matter how many good things they do or how many sinful things they do — that God doesn't love them because of the good things and isn't angry with them because of the sinful things. We are all born in sin, yet God didn't leave us stuck in sin. He sent His Son Jesus to reconcile us to Himself.

In that prayer, also pray that God would be at work in your child's heart and in your heart. Pray that God would transform your hearts and give you a desire to love Him, and that that desire to love Him would be greater than anyone's desire for people's approval.

So that's what I recommend with a child who struggles more with people pleasing: affirm them of God's love for them and of our love for them, that it's all based on the merit of Jesus and not on our works. Then make sure that in our discipline we're not saying, "I'm so disappointed in you" — because that's just playing into our child's sin of fear of man, and also because the issue with their sin is not that it has displeased us, but that it's broken God's law. We want to place the focus where it's at. Then pray with them, reminding them of God's great love for them, thanking God for His great love for them, and asking that God would transform their heart into a heart that desires to please God above all else.

For the Strong-Willed Child

Now, for a more strong-willed child, that sin needs to be addressed as well. You're probably going to have more discipline situations with that child.

It's very important to be consistent in this. If we are inconsistent with our discipline — especially with a strong-willed child — that's ultimately for their harm. We are not training them to go in the way that God has called them to go.

So I recommend with a strong-willed child that you are very consistent in your discipline and that you focus on getting to the heart of the matter.

If you told your child to put down the toy and come eat lunch, and they looked at you, then looked away and directly disobeyed you — you need to address it right then. You need to stop and get to the heart of the matter.

If it's a young child like the two-year-old described in this question, you need to say, "Okay, what did Mama tell you to do?" Have your child explain what you told them to do. If they can't articulate it yet, say, "Mama told you to put your toy down. Did you do that?" "No." "Why didn't you put your toy down?"

At two years of age, they're probably not going to be able to articulate that yet. You can say: "That's because in your heart, you wanted to do what you wanted to do. And when you did that, that's called being selfish, and that's sinning against God. God has called you to obey Mommy and Daddy. So let's practice saying, 'Yes, Mama.'" Then pick the toy up, put it back in your child's hand, have them look at you and say, "Yes, Mama," and practice putting the toy down. Then practice it again — put the toy in their hand, have them look at you and say, "Yes, Mama," and then put it down. Then walk them into the dining room or living room or kitchen — wherever you instructed them to go — and then decide what the discipline will be for that situation.

With an older strong-willed child, you might need to send them to their room or to the sofa as soon as they disobey, for a few minutes to cool down, and then go to them to ask those same heart-probing questions: "What did I ask you to do? What did you choose to do instead? Why did you choose to do that?" Really get to their heart.

A Word of Encouragement

As I was preparing notes for this podcast, I was thinking about my own work in the classroom. There was one year where I had a group of students that was so very difficult. That year, I felt like I wasn't a teacher — I felt like I was a police officer. All day long I was just disciplining, disciplining, disciplining students.

Throughout that year, as I was so frustrated, I had two prayers. I just prayed, "God, please make it so that by spending time in my classroom, these students would understand more of Your character and nature." And the second prayer was, "Please, Lord God, as I'm disciplining them, please let me get to the heart, and let them see what's going on in their hearts."

And God was so kind to me.

On the last day of school, in all honesty, I was just feeling so discouraged. We only had an hour that last day, and again my students were acting up and misbehaving. I was just so done with the year. I could not wait until that bell rang and everybody was gone and I would never have to have them in my classroom again.

On the last day of school, I would always have my students individually come up and sit in a special chair they were never allowed to sit in all year long. Then I'd have several students share things they were grateful for about that student. We'd do that for everybody, and then it would be time to leave.

Well, that year, at the end when we were done, one student goes, "Well, what about you, Miss U?" And I was like, "Oh, no, no, no, we don't do me." And the entire class was like, "No, no, no, we have to talk about you." So I said, "Okay."

I sat in the chair, and of course, in the typical nature of that class, students said things that were... well, great. One student said, "I really appreciated your face." And I was like, "Great, I have zero control over how my face developed over my genetics." So I thought, "Well, then it must have been the Lord, because these students were not that articulate."

One student raised her hand and she said, "Well, at the beginning of the year, I knew a lot of Bible stories and I knew a lot of Bible verses, but now, after being in your class, I know who God is. I learned so much about who God is."

And I was like, "Oh my goodness, Lord, You answered this prayer. I didn't think You did, and You answered it."

Then the next kid to raise his hand — he was one of my biggest behavior issues all year long. He raises his hand, and I called on him, and he was like, "Well, you know how you had to discipline me all day, every day?" And I was like, "Yes, yes, I do remember that." And he's like, "Well, most teachers, when they discipline me, they just kept telling me to stop doing the bad thing I was doing. But you actually helped me to look at my heart and to see why I was doing what I was doing, and that it was a sin against God."

I immediately burst into tears and I was like, "Oh my goodness, Lord, thank You. Thank You for showing me that You actually answered my prayer when I didn't think You had, all year long."

So this is just an encouragement to those of you with strong-willed children: be very consistent in your discipline, and try to get to the heart. Focus on heart-probing questions — asking your children why they did what they did, what they were trying to accomplish, whether or not it accomplished that goal — to help them see that what they were doing is sin. I highly recommend again that Wise Words for Moms chart.

I also share that story of my own experience in the classroom just to encourage any parents who are feeling weary and are thinking, "Yes, I'm doing all this already, Elizabeth. I'm asking those heart-probing questions, and I just have this strong-willed, hardhearted child, and nothing seems to be happening."

You don't know what God is doing underneath the surface. In that classroom experience, if the Lord hadn't opened those children's mouths and had them say those direct things, I would to this day still think I had made no difference in their life. You have no idea what God is doing as you are being faithful in your discipline.

Pray for the Will to Be Pointed Toward God

So with that strong-willed child, I recommend that as you're wrapping up your discipline with them, you pray with them. Bring them before the throne of God, thank God for them, thank God for His great love for you in Jesus, and pray that God would change your child's heart — that He would change their desires and give them the desire to want to obey Him. And pray that He would use their strong-willed nature for good. Because, you know what? Having a very strong will that is directed toward God can be a really good thing.

I know that when I was growing up, one of the prayers my mom would pray — she didn't pray it in front of me, but she told me later on as an adult that she would pray this for me and for my siblings — was that God would take the things in our lives that she found most difficult to deal with, and that He would harness them for our good.

Now, I don't know all of the things about me that greatly annoyed my mom when I was growing up. But I know one of the things that was really hard to deal with about me when I was growing up: I am naturally a glass-half-empty kind of person. I can look at a situation where 95 things are going well and point out the three things that are not going well and zero in on those things. I know that used to drive my mom up the wall, because I really struggled with ingratitude and with not being content in any situation.

However, God has really used that sinful pattern in my life. He's redeemed it and sanctified it. Do I still struggle with it? Yes. However, He's really harnessed it through the power of His Holy Spirit for good. Because now — what do I spend my days doing professionally? I spend my days helping people evaluate ideas and getting their kids to evaluate ideas, and picking out the few drops of poison that Satan has subtly snuck into different concepts in our culture.

So pray this for your child: that God would take that strong-willed nature and use it for good. Because a child who is strong-willed and has their will pointed toward the will of God — who knows how much the Lord could use them to accomplish?

Well, I hope that really helps the questioner and anybody else who's thinking through, "How do I teach my children to obey out of a love for God?" The answer is: we can't change their hearts. However, we can do things that are specifically aimed toward our children's personality to try to help them get to the heart of behavior issues and point their will and their desires toward the goodness of Jesus Christ, our Savior.

Well, that's a wrap for this episode. If you have a question that you would like for me to answer on a future Foundation Worldview Podcast, you can submit it at foundationworldview.com/podcast.

As we leave our time together, my prayer for you is that no matter the situation in which you and the children God has placed in your care find yourselves, you would trust that God is working all things together for your good by using all things to conform you more into the image of His Son. I'll see you next time.

Go Deeper With Your Kids

The heart-level discipleship Elizabeth describes in this episode is exactly what our Attributes of God curriculum is designed to reinforce. When children understand who God is — His holiness, His love, His faithfulness — obedience stops being about pleasing Mom and Dad and starts flowing from a real reverence for the God they're coming to know.

And if you'd like to make sure you don't miss future episodes on biblical parenting, heart-focused discipline, and raising kids who think biblically, you can sign up for our newsletter.