Helping Kids Evaluate Secular Critiques

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Elizabeth dives into comments left by atheists and skeptics, using them as teachable moments to demonstrate how Christians can thoughtfully engage with criticism. She discusses strategies for parents and educators to help children critically analyze and respond to opposing views, strengthening their faith and understanding.

Transcript

Note: The following is an auto-transcript of the podcast recording.

Hello friends, and welcome to another episode of the Foundation Worldview Podcast where we seek to answer your questions so that you can equip the children that God has placed in your care to carefully evaluate every idea they encounter and understand the truth of the biblical worldview. I'm your host, Elizabeth Urbanowicz, and I'm thrilled that you've joined me for another episode today. Now, today's episode is going to be slightly different than our normal episodes in that I am not going to be responding to a question that someone has submitted. I am actually going to be responding to a previous podcast and the comments that we received on YouTube. Now, recently, we released a podcast on a question about slavery in the Bible. And so whenever something like that with very hot button terms goes up into YouTube, the algorithms change a little bit and we get lots of people who don't normally watch our content watching it. So we had a lot of responses from people who would claim that they're atheists or that they're agnostic or spiritual but not religious. And so we got tons of comments on there, and we actually didn't respond to any of them simply because it is not our calling at Foundation Worldview to go online and do battle with online atheists, though that there are many Christians who that is their calling to go online and show that there is a rational defense for those who are investing their time and writing online comments. And so that's not our role at Foundation Worldview. So we didn't respond to any of the comments. However, as I was reading through the comments, I was like, wow, this provides such an amazing activity for us to do with our children, to show them how to engage when they encounter such claims against Christianity. So that's what we're going to do in this video. I'm actually just going to walk us through some of the comments that we've received on YouTube and then talk through, okay, how can we have our kids logically evaluate such claims as these?

Now, before we do this, if you are listening on a podcast platform, please make sure that you invest the two seconds that it takes to rate this content. Doing so really helps us get this content in front of more people so that more Christian adults can be equipped to carefully evaluate these ideas and help their kids do so as well. And if you're watching on YouTube, please be sure just to like and subscribe so that you don't miss any future episodes, and again, so that YouTube can get the message that people enjoy this content. Also, if you have a question that you would like for me to answer because I normally am answering questions on typical Foundation Worldview podcast, you can submit that by going to FoundationWorldview.com/podcast.

So the activity that I was thinking of as I was reading through these different comments is one that families could do together, or actually, if you are listening to this and you are working in an Christian educational setting or in a church setting, you could do that with kids in these settings as well. So what I would recommend that you do is if you have a child ages eight or above that you actually watch that podcast video on YouTube.

So just go through, watch the video together, we'll put links to it in the show notes, and then while you're doing that, take notes with your child or the children in your care on the main points made because I actually outline a specific argument in that podcast. So take notes on what are the main things that I am claiming. Okay, so after you've watched the video and then taken notes on what are the main points that I have made with your child or the children in your care, start reading through the comments on YouTube and say, okay, what is this person claiming in their comment? And then look through all of the points that I made and discuss this comment that this person made, this criticism. Is it addressing any of the claims that I made in the video or is it going in a completely different direction? So I'm going to kind of walk you through now what this would look like specifically with this video.

So in the video, the podcast on slavery in the Bible, I made six very specific claims. So the first claim that I made is that atheists have no objective grounding for morality, for right and wrong while Christians do. Okay? So the first claim is that atheists have no objective grounding for morality while Christians do. And I explain that the reason for this is if you come to life with a naturalistic worldview and you believe that only the physical realm is real, that nothing spiritual or metaphysical is real, then morals can't actually be real because morals are metaphysical. And so if you automatically say only the physical realm is real, that automatically excludes morality. So that was the first claim.

The second claim that I made is that slavery in the ancient Near East and in the Greco-Roman world was different than antebellum slavery in the southern half of the United States.

The third claim that I made was that completely abolishing slavery during the time of either the old or the New Testament would have been virtually impossible because such a huge population of people were enslaved. And also that it would've put many people in society in danger because slavery, one of the ways that someone would become a slave would be selling themselves as a slave because they did not have the financial means to provide for themselves or their family so that they could sell themselves to a master who would provide them with food and clothing and shelter, and then they would work for that person. So that was the third claim.

The fourth claim that I made was that God's law in the Old Testament had provisions for slaves that no other civilization at the time had. And I quoted Leviticus chapter 21 verses 7 through 11, Deuteronomy 15, verses 12 through 14, and Deuteronomy 21, verses 10 to 14.

The fifth claim that I made was in the New Testament, slaves who were Christians were viewed as brothers, and I quoted from Philemon there. And also I made the claim that the record of the early church shows that slaves were in positions of authority over free people in the body of Christ.

And then the sixth claim that I made is that the verse, Exodus 21:16 shows that everyone involved in the, sorry, the transatlantic slave trade would have been put to death according to God's law in Exodus 21:16. So I made those six claims.

So then what we would do after going through those six claims with our kids, then start reading through the comments in the YouTube video and asking, are any of these six claims addressed in these comments? So the first I just pulled out, I think it is four different comments that we're going to read through now, and we're going to go through that.

So the first comment is, the truth is that the Bible condones, chattel slavery, Leviticus 25 verses 44 through 46, precisely describes and condones chattel slavery. So according to your Bible, slavery is not morally wrong. It is objectively good. Eventually your children will grow up and they will resent the fact that you lied to them. Okay? So then we talk with our kids, okay, what is this person claiming? This person is claiming that the Bible says that slavery is good and that our children will grow up and believe that we lied to them. Okay, so this person is claiming again, that Bible says that slavery is good and that our children will one day grow up and think that we lied to them. Okay? So let's think through now, does this person, what this person commented, does it address any of the claims? Let's go through it. Does this comment address the claim that atheists have no grounding for morality while Christians do? Nope. It didn't address that claim. Does it address the claim that slavery in the ancient near East and the Greco-Roman world was different than antebellum slavery in the South? Nope. It didn't cover that one. Okay. Number three, completely abolishing slavery would've been virtually impossible at the time and would've put many people in society in danger. Does it address that claim? No. Okay. Number four, God's law had provisions for slaves that no other civilization at the time had. Does it address that claim? No. Okay. Number five, in the New Testament, slaves who are Christians are viewed as brothers, and the record of the early church shows that slaves were in positions of authority over free people in the body of Christ. Does it address that claim? No. Okay. Number six, Exodus 20:16 shows that all involved in the transatlantic slave trade would've been put to death according to God's law.Does it address that claim? No. So then we talk with our kids, okay, so what did this person do? They avoided all of the claims that were made and instead shifted the conversation in a different direction and threw in some emotional language that your children will grow up and they will resent you. So we can then talk with our kids. Okay, if this person was a friend of ours making these claims, what would we want to do? Well, we would want to say, okay, you know what? I made these six claims. Can you respond to one of these six claims and explain to me why you don't agree with it? Okay, so if this person was a friend, we could have this conversation. If this is just somebody commenting online, if God has given us a ministry where we're going to lovingly confront non-believers online, we can respond with the same thing and say, here are the six claims made.Can you please show me where you think these claims are wrong? And if they don't respond to that, or if they try to throw out something else that takes the conversation in a completely different direction, we anchor it back to these are the claims that were made. Can you please show me evidence of where you think these claims are false?

Another comment that was left on YouTube, wow, that was some of the worst apologetics I ever heard. Okay? Now, I'm not going to take us through all six of the claims made, but by saying that was some of the worst apologetics I've ever heard. Does that address any of the six claims? No. So we don't have to do anything with that, because that was just saying that they thought it was the worst apologetics, but they didn't provide any evidence for that. So we can just move on.

Another comment. It says, it is such a shame that no Christian can articulate a rational defense. For the countless times, the Bible's version of God not only allowed slavery but commanded it. I'm sure, because those slaves meant nothing to you. And since you don't see yourself in them, you rationalize an argument with that verse. But Yahweh contradicted himself many times. So that verse was pointless. I'm no atheist, but that Yahweh in the Bible is not my God. Okay? So we can ask our kids, okay, so what is this person claiming? Well, they're saying that no Christian can provide a defense for slavery in the Bible. This person is claiming that the slaves in the Bible meant nothing to me, and I don't see myself in them. And it's also claiming that God contradicted himself. Okay, so those are the three claims. Do those claims address any of the arguments made? No, they don't. So again, if this person were a friend of ours, what would we do? We'd say, okay, these are the points that I made. These are the six points that I made. Can you show me where you think these points are wrong? And again, if they just go back to this more emotional language and sweeping claims, we want to say, okay, I know that you feel this way, but can you please show me in one of these six claims where you think it's wrong? Okay. Again, if it was somebody online, we'd want to do that lovingly. And if they keep taking the conversation in a different direction, there's no point in having that conversation because the person is not engaging actually in rational argument.

Next comment, then the fourth and final comment that we're going to read. As a non-believer, I appreciate that you are at least trying to tackle an obvious problem with the Bible condoning slavery, but it really sounds like you've never looked at the overwhelming amount of information on how nonbelievers/ secularists can ascribe human worth and value such that slavery is objectively bad even without appealing to a God. It's really not that hard to find. Okay? So ask our kids, okay, what is this person claiming? Okay, this person is claiming that I have never looked at information on how people who are not Christians find worth in humans, and how they could believe that slavery is objectively wrong. Okay? So is this person addressing any of the claims made? Yes. This is the first comment where we see one of the claims actually addressed, and it is addressing the first claim that atheists have no objective grounding for morality while Christians do. Okay? So this should be an exciting thing for us because as Christians, we want to be good thinkers. We want to use the gift of our intellect that God has given us. So finding that someone else wants to actually have a rational intellectual discussion about these things should be something that excites us and encourages us, okay?So we can be grateful for this comment. So then how should we respond to this? This person is responding to the first claim that atheists have no objective grounding for morality.

So the first thing that we should tell our children or encourage them to do is that we request that this person then backs up their claim. So this person said that there's an overwhelming amount of information on how non-believers or secularists can ascribe human worth and value, such that slavery is objectively bad. So we would want to say, okay, so you said that there are some really great ways in which people who don't believe in God or a God find that humans have value and that morals are actually true things. Can you show me some of the arguments that you have found most convincing? Because this person has made a claim, so then it's their responsibility to back up this claim. Also, if we're going to have a conversation with them, we want to make sure that we understand where they're coming from.

Now, this person thinks that I've never actually looked into this where I have actually studied moral thought throughout in great detail because I had to take several classes on it when I was at Biola. And so I have read a number of different articles from different people who come from an atheistic or naturalistic perspective on saying how they think humans should do morality. However, I don't know who this person ascribes to, and so what theory they ascribe to, so I'm going to want some more information about that. So we would ask them, okay, what arguments do you find most convincing? And then take the sources that they give us, read through it, and then ask them, what about this do you find convincing? Because the fact of the matter is if humans did get here accidentally through the process of blind unguided evolution, we do not have inherent value. We can subjectively bestow value on someone or on ourselves, but there is no objective actual true value to us because we got here accidentally. And are there ways of arriving at saying that slavery is wrong? There are other theories saying that, but as I mentioned in the beginning, if we come to the world from the perspective that only the physical realm is real and that the moral realm or the metaphysical realm is not real, then morals cannot actually be true things. They're just things that we as a society enter into a social contract and say, okay, we believe that it is best when humans are not enslaved. Or we can take more a philosophy of utilitarianism like John Stewart and Mill or Jeremy Bentham and saying, okay, we're doing this mathematics, this calculus, to figure out how does society work out best? How is there the most amount of pleasure and the least amount of pain? Okay, so we're going to want to know what theory does this person actually ascribe to?

Then we're going to want to talk with our kids, okay? How would we start a conversation with this person once we read what they provided us with or we ask them for more information? You can talk about how this would look different if this is a friend that we have versus if this is a college professor that we have the way that we interact with others.

So I hope my goal in this podcast was just to show how we can guide our children through looking at content that is distinctly Christian content, and then those who did not adhere to the Christian worldview have challenged. How can we train them to logically and carefully and thoroughly evaluate the claims made in the content, and then the way that someone has responded to them? So highly recommend that if you have kids eight on up, you watch through that slavery video on YouTube. Then you take notes on those six main points that I made and read through some of the comments with your children. Identify what is this person saying? And then discuss the claims that were made. Do they address any of the claims made in the video?

Now, if you're sitting here and you're thinking, Elizabeth, this all sounds only and good, and I like the way that you're describing this activity. I can see how it would be really helpful for my children, but I'm not sure that I'm prepared to guide them in this way. One thing I'd highly recommend that you do, check out our "Careful Thinking" curriculum at Foundation Worldview, because what we do in that "Careful Thinking" curriculum is we systematically train kids to do just this. To look at a statement that someone has made and logically evaluate it, talking about, okay, is the statement true? How do we know it's true? Or how do we know that it's false? Does the statement contain sound thinking? Are there mistakes and careful thinking made in this? And so as you go through that curriculum with the children that God has placed in your care, it will train them and also you alongside them to carefully evaluate every claim that you encounter.

Well, that's a wrap for this episode. But as always, my prayer for you is that no matter the situation in which you and the children God has placed in your care, find yourselves, you would trust that God is working all things together for your good. By using all things to conform you more into the image of His Son. I'll see you next time.